Home | Tools & Resources | Lessons | Guitar Duels | Messageboard | Member Profiles | Search | Log In

Modes by Interval

Post Reply

User ImageBillyJack
10:11 am Friday
August 5, 2005
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Re: Going Beyond Modes

Quote From lindyn:


lindyn
Posted: 21 Dec 2004 01:25 am
Post subject: Going Beyond Modes


Modes are very important but they are not the end all of playing mearly a starting point.


That statement nailed it better than any I've ever seen. Modes are, and by rights should be, the starting point.

I've heard many many players try to teach, or explain to others, their craft and preach scales, scales, scales, scales, scales. The first thing the listener wants to know is "Which ones and how do I practice them?". There's NO correct answer to that question. Any answer given would be objective based on the teachers style of music. I think I have a better idea. I have yet not ran across any scale that is not a derivative of one of the seven modes. Some scales may drop notes from a mode for a specific feel but, the foundation from which it was derived is still there. So isn't learning seven patterns to start with better than picking a couple to practice out of infinite combinations?

Below is a link to a practice sheet. It is a large picture and may take a moment for you dial-up guys to boot up but, I think it'll be worth the time. (No Mike it's not the mouse over script I had up before it's just the second picture from it Smile )

http://members.cox.net/string.bender/ModesofFMajor.jpg

Now what do I do with it you ask? Print it, lay it in your lap and every time you pick up your guitar, take ten minutes and practice the patterns starting at the first one and pick it till you know it forwards and backwards. Then move to the second and so on. That's it.

After your 10 minutes, practice however you're use to. Think of this, five out of the seven patterns I've shown span 5 frets so, it's a great finger exercise and warm up.

Now I've laid them out in a manor that shows each mode in it's relationship to F Major simply because F is the first fingered note on the guitar neck. You can work each pattern from any starting point you desire but, until you know them well enough, I'd practice the way I have them laid out. After you have a few of them down pat, it's not a bad idea to start each from the same root. This will allow you to hear the feel each mode gives from a common starting point. A good friend of mine told me once " If you can sing it, you can play and understand it." Any melody player should agree. That is the reasoning behind my technic. If you practice as I've instructed, you should, by the time you know them, be able to hum or sing them. (which I have another sheet with each modes vocal companion on. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll post that one.)

Here's you a jump start to learning 3 of the modes:

1st Ionian Mode = If you've ever sang Do, Ra, Me, Fa, So, La, Ti, Do then you know how the Ionian mode sounds.

2nd Locrian Mode = If you start from the 2 position in this mode, you have the Ionian Mode. So if you start one fret earlier and play Ti, Do, Ra, Me, Fa, So, La, Ti then you have the Locrian Mode.

3rd (and my favorite) Phrygian Mode = If you start at the open E and play (open E, F, G)(open A, B, C)(open D, E, F)(open G, A)(open B, C, D)(open E, F, G) You have the Phrygian Mode Pattern. Just shift one fret down and close the open note position and that's the pattern.


GOOD LUCK! Hope this helps.
User ImageMike Lindyn
12:42 pm Friday
August 5, 2005
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
This is all great stuff. Thumbs Up I love your charts too.

By the way please post the vocal companion chart you were talking about I'd love to check that out too.
User ImageBillyJack
2:05 pm Friday
August 5, 2005
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Ok Here it is. It's a reference chart I use as I practice playing the modes. It is very easy to make Ra, Me, Fa, So, La, Ti, Do, Ra sound the same as Do, Ra, Me, Fa, So, La, Ti, Do so what I do is lay this chart next to the F Major Mode chart I posted earlier and as I play, I sing the corresponding vocal. A person would amazed what this does. 1st off, it forces ear training because you have to be able to hear it to repeat it. 2nd, it's an awesome vocal exercise for singer/players. And Thirdly, by repeated practice, you learn to identify and anticipate where to go with harmonic changes, both instrumentally and vocally, where without this or some other disciplined training, it's easy to get lost within a progression.

My goal in developing my teaching method is to help start learning the mechanics of advance technics without the mental load involved in the classical teachings. This is why, in my earlier post, I said just commit 10 minutes to this exercises everytime you pick up the guitar. Not trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm just showing beginners where the brake and clutch are before they actually start driving down the road and maybe help knock down some walls for the more advanced players that have had trouble understanding the application of Modes. (Like ME! Smile )

Here's the link. If anyone has questions I've not answered clearly, feel free to ask
http://members.cox.net/billy.jack/VocalModeChart.jpg
User ImageMike Lindyn
4:19 pm Friday
August 5, 2005
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Oh ok, its a Tonic Sol Fa chart for each of the modes I didn't understand at first. Very helpful stuff. In my book I do a lesson on tonic sol fa it is the best way to train your ear. I like how you broke it up by each mode.
User Imagejeremy
10:46 pm Thursday
August 3, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Too bad I apparently missed this. The links that he posted seem to be dead. I'd like to see that first chart if anyone still has it.
User ImageBillyJack
7:03 am Friday
August 4, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
My new computer does not want to read my saved disc so I've lost the files. Give me a bit and I'll rebuild the charts.

(Need to anyway. the one I use is wore out.) Very happy

Are you on a high speed connection?
User ImageBillyJack
12:53 pm Friday
August 4, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Whew, took me 6 hours to redo it but, I got it! ( I think?)

http://members.cox.net/string.bender/ModesofFMajor.jpg
User Imagejeremy
10:36 pm Friday
August 4, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Damn. You dudes are so helpful on here. Thanks for pulling that together again. I just printed it out. I don't really get it yet but I'm gonna start looking at it now and read what you said you're supposed to do with it in your one post back there and see what's up.

Thanks, man!
User Imagejeremy
12:04 am Saturday
August 5, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Okay. I'm looking at this chart and I'm pretty confused. Like, for example, the "F-Ionian" part... why does it seem like there's a note missing on the first fret of the 5th string? And then the "G-Dorian" one looks like no scale I've ever seen. Same deal with the rest of them. They're obviously not normal "major" modes. So I'm confused at what I'm looking at here.

I'm intrigued though... help?
User Imagejeremy
12:06 am Saturday
August 5, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Also... what does all of the notation mean? The letters an' numbers?
User ImageBillyJack
11:08 am Saturday
August 5, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
It's been awhile since I originally put this together so forgive me for not being more explanative with my chart.

1st things 1st! The chart is set up as if you where holding your guitar looking into a mirror. (1st point of confision I know but, it's what works for me doing this exercise)

There are 8 fret boards on the picture and the top one shows every note on the guitar that is found within the F Major scale. I used F Major because the first fret note on the bass "E" string is "F" and it gives me room to put all 7 Modes on the fret board in a an unbroken flow starting with the root note of the mode and working down the neck.

[quote:bc5f3e91ca]Okay. I'm looking at this chart and I'm pretty confused. Like, for example, the "F-Ionian" part... why does it seem like there's a note missing on the first fret of the 5th string?

Telling you it's mirrored may have fixed this but if not, it may be the intervals that are confusing you. If it was the mirror, skip this bold/italic part cause explaining intervals creates a lot of questions on there own.

If you're not familure with intervals, here's what's happening. There are 7 tones and the octave in a major scale (Doe, Rae, Me, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Doe) In "F Major" the notes that create these tones are F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F (F Major scale right?). Now in C Major the notes are C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (C Major scale right? ) The notes change as we change keys but, there are still 7 tones and the space between these tones stay constant. That's why you can sing (Doe, Rae, Me, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Doe) in any key and it sounds the same. These spaces are called INTERVALS and since they are constant, we can number them (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 1).
Doe = 1 Rae = 2 Me = 3 Fa = 4 Sol = 5 La = 6 Ti = 7 Doe = 1

On the chart, they are numbered;

1 = your ROOT (F)
M2 = a Major 2nd (G)
M3 = a Major 3rd (A)
P4 = a Perfect 4th (Bb)
P5 = a Perfect 5th (C)
M6 = a Major 6th (D)
M7 = a Major 7th (E)


[quote:bc5f3e91ca]the "G-Dorian" one looks like no scale I've ever seen. Same deal with the rest of them. They're obviously not normal "major" modesI'm not sure what "normal" means but remember, you can play a mode from anywhere on the guitar neck.
The chart is not set up to teach typical modal patterns. It's designed to do two things

1st - is to show where the modes come from and how they relate to the major scale.
2nd - it's 7 practice patterns, for those just starting into modes, to train their ear to the tonal flow of each mode.
User ImageBillyJack
7:50 am Sunday
August 6, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Originally the chart was an animated gif file that shows all the notes of F Major and, using root 6 patterns that flow only up the neck from the modes root, shows where each mode fits into the F Major scale.



I just separated each frame to make a chart I could lay in my lap and use to do finger exercises while also training my ear. That is why the image is mirrored instead of inverted. I run this animation on the computer and practice keeping up with the changes as it moves from one mode to the other. The patterns are on a 5 second delay and with practice I was able to make it up and back down the pattern before it changed.

That's why you don't recognize the patterns. They are upside down! Confused
User ImageBillyJack
9:41 pm Sunday
August 6, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
OK, I reformated the chart to an inverted mirror and now it should be more what you're use to.

http://members.cox.net/string.bender/FMI.jpg

Hope this helps.

I can see why you guys have a problem reading my charts, I played hell getting the intervals in the right spot reading it upside down to my way of following it and they're my charts. Can only imagine trying to follow it and figure it out upside down.
User ImageBillyJack
6:31 am Tuesday
August 8, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Hey Mallard,
I split this from Mike's "Going Beyond The Modes" thread because in describing my chart, the subject changed to How modes are created. Hope this doesn't add confusion.
User Imagejeremy
3:58 am Thursday
August 10, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Wow. That mirror thing really confused me. I was lookin' at it and thinking, "what's goin' on with this?". But my brain couldn't turn it around and see how you had it laid out. But now I see it. But I like the mirrored-mirror ones better. Thanks for doin' that. That was pretty cool of you. I reprinted it and now I'll start hittin' this.

Another question I had was... do the colors of the intervals on the charts have any significance? I printed them out in back and white and now I'm wondering if the colors mean anything.
User ImageBillyJack
6:37 am Thursday
August 10, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
The colors are not of any real significance. I study intervals religiously so the numbers are vital to what I teach but in truth, to learn the patterns, all you need is the Root (1) and 6 dots. Very happy
User Imagejeremy
7:41 pm Thursday
August 10, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
I hear that... but I'll pay attention to the intervals as well. It can't hurt. Thanks.
User ImageBillyJack
11:58 pm Thursday
August 10, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Cool! Here's you a list of my chromatic interval markings if you want to pay attention to them while you practice.

1st (1 = Root)
2nd (m2 = minor 2)
3rd (M2 = Major 2)
4th (m3 = minor 3)
5th (M3 =Major 3)
6th (P4 = Perfect 4)
7th (a4 = augmented 4)(d5 = diminished 5)
8th (P5 = Perfect 5)
9th (m6 = minor 6)
10th (M6 = Major 6)
11th (m7 = minor 7 or Dominate 7)
12th (M7 = Major 7)

These markings represent the space between the 12 notes in Western Music. If you start on a "C" note and hit every ascending note, including sharps/flats, when you hit 13 you'll be on "C" an octave higher. If you start on an "A" note and hit every ascending note, including sharps/flats, when you hit 13 you'll be on "A" an octave higher. If you start on a "Bb" note and hit every ascending note, including sharps/flats, when you hit 13 you'll be on "Bb" an octave higher. Point is, there is always 12 spaces between the notes in an octave if you count every note. I warn you in advance, my way is not the most popular one. Most commonly you will find that people only use the 7 Major intervals and alter the required Major to fit the scale they're working on.

Look at C Major

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C
C=1, D=2, E=3, F=4, G=5, A=6, B=7, C=1

Now C minor

C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C
You might see
C= 1, D= 2, Eb= b3, F= 4, G= 5, Ab= b6, Bb= b7, C= 1
or
C= 1, D= 2, Eb= -3, F= 4, G= 5, Ab= -6, Bb= -7, C= 1
and of course the way you'll see it on my charts
C=1, D=2, Eb=m3, F=4, G=5, Ab=m6, Bb=m7, C=1

Like I said before, the note you start on may change but the spaces between notes of a given scale or mode always remain the same. If I told you to play a minor scale (on my charts) it would look like this:

1, 2, m3, 4, 5, m6, m7, 1 It could be in any key
G=1, A=2, bB=m3, C=4, D=5, Eb=m6, F=m7, G=1

Hope this wasn't too little explaining or too much information.
User Imagejeremy
12:21 am Friday
August 11, 2006
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
I'm feelin' that. Thinkin' of the intervals like this more will help me start to "hear" them that way too. Maybe I'll get better at Mike's Ear Trainer thing too.
User Imagejeremy
11:06 pm Tuesday
November 13, 2007
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Picked up in interesting new way to think about the modes in GW. This dude says to learn the modes using the cycle of 5ths. So basically you learn them in this order... Ionian, Mixolydian, Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian, Locrian and Lydian. Each successive mode will have one more flatted note relative to the first mode Ionian except for Lydian which has no flats but a raised 4th. Then if you flat the 4th in Lydian you're back at Ionian. Pretty tight. This kinda arranges them in order of descending brightness.
User ImageBillyJack
11:13 pm Wednesday
November 14, 2007
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
Now I'm gonna mess with your head! :twisted:

You have 6 naturals and one sharp in the Lydian Mode. Now if you think in intervals, what happens if you flatten each note by a half step? You end up with 6 flats and one natural, yes? From that view, you have:
1 (Ionian) = No flats
5 (Mixolydian) = one flat
2 (Dorian) = 2 flats
6 (Aeolian) = 3 flats
3 (Phrygian) = 4 flats
7 (Locrian) = 5 flats
4 (Lydian) = 6 flats (or 1 sharp)

The reason no one that looks at it thinks that there are 6 flats is because they don't look back at the _________ __________. (I'm not even gonna say it, but there's only a semi tone bewteen it's 3 and 4. Therefore all intervals in the 4 would be flattened by a semi tone giving you the 6 flats and 1 natural as opposed to 6 naturals and 1 sharp)
User Imagejeremy
10:15 pm Tuesday
November 20, 2007
Reply || Reply With Quote || Report
You ARE messin' with my head. Lemme think about this for a while...

Post Reply